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« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2008, 08:40:16 AM »

Well I love all seasons by the way  so I don't have anything upon them  Smiley
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« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2008, 02:02:01 AM »

You guys still need to convince me...
I saw Masaru PUNCH a Digimon!
I mean...the Digidestined were always meant to support a Digimon during battle, and provide a reason/key to digivolution.  That is what kept the partnership balanced.  Letting a human PUNCH a Digimon to catalyze a digivolution (What is it?  Stealing kilobytes or something?) completely muddles that relationship.  It tastes gimmicky and look obnoxious.
The dialogue isn't that great (but one could argue that it is a shared flaw among all Digimon series.)
The main characters of Savers are meant to relate to older audiences, but all I see is a very typical anime trio: the reckless one, the lancer, and the action girl.
I do admit it is pretty cool how Savers uses a lot more Digimon we wanted to see appear in a series: the Olympus 12 is an awesome...however, the original Falcomon is soo much cooler.
Agumon looks funny, and those geo armbands are from Kumamon.
I don't find Raramon's digivolutions very creative: they all look too similar.

Digimon Adventure is about a bunch of kids who had problems like we all did.  These kids suddenly get involved in another world and end up saving everything (the human world, the DigiWorld, themselves, their families) with the help of their Digimon friends.  The Digimon helped these kids through all their personal problems: Yamato and Takeru's divorced parents, Taichi's alcoholic father and Taichi's tendencies to show off bravery for attention, Sora and her mom, Mimi and her spoiled temperament and dependency on her parents and others...etc.
What does Saver's do to show children that they are not alone and that they can do anything--that there are friends out there, somewhere?  Every season BUT Saver's has this original Digimon feel.  If it doesn't have this most basic thing, then I could say it's not Digimon anymore.

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« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2008, 08:36:50 PM »

Under those standards, Frontier would also fail as a digimon season...

Hey, wait... FRONTIER DOES FAIL AS A DIGIMON SEASON.

Really, though... If you ask me... Savers lacks character development, a decent plot, and a decent ending... But it makes up for it in awesomeness, at many points during the course of the series there will be moments in which you will be driven to say "WOOOOOOOOOOAH!". Enough to surpass Frontier and 02, but not enough to even compare to Tamers or Adventure.

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« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2008, 12:07:45 AM »

If Savers has those "WHOA" moments it isn't the only reason why I should try to watch Savers.
I think character development is key and ties into that basic Digimon idea I mentioned earlier.
If an anime begins and ends without the characters changing anything or themselves, then that story did not progress.

And to clarify, I don't like Frontier that much either.  Humans turning into Digimon is a bit outta the ball park for me, but at least that constant Digimon ingredient of "growing up" is still present.
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"The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live,
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« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2008, 12:16:54 AM »

Huh? Savers by far had the firmest plot of any Digimon series.

As for character development, Ikuto and Masaru went through a lot. The others not so much, maybe. But the Digimon were often much more three-dimensional characters than they had been in previous series.
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« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2008, 01:09:37 AM »

It seems my argument has been grounded in a quick swipe.
Well, I suppose I'll give Savers another chance.

However, what made the other season's of Digimon have unstable plot lines instead of a firmer one in Savers?
Can you clarify?
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"The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live,
mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the
ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn,
like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars
and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes
'Awww!'"
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« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2008, 03:28:01 AM »

Huh? Savers by far had the firmest plot of any Digimon series.

Yes, but the plot was bad... doesn't do a lot of good if the plot is as solid as a rock if it's dull an uninspiring non-the less...

Quote
As for character development, Ikuto and Masaru went through a lot. The others not so much, maybe. But the Digimon were often much more three-dimensional characters than they had been in previous series.

And yet Masaru remains the most static character in the history of digimon, never growing up or changing the slightest bit, followed closely by Davis and Takuya... As for Ikuto... it's really not that hard to turn a boy who trusts no one but digimon into a boy that makes friends with everybody, it's like generic anime character no. 23 or something.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 03:35:34 AM by Maki, Commander Blade » Logged

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« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2008, 03:33:43 PM »

Are you saying that the plot is what you didn't like or was it the actual story that you found uninspiring? I'm a little confused as to what everyone means.

Story and plot are two separate yet intertwined components of a story.
Quote
A story is a series of events recorded in their chronological order.

A plot is a series of events deliberately arranged so as to reveal their dramatic, thematic, and emotional significance.
Plot is also suppose to give the story a focus.

In that sense, Data Squad/Savers had a pretty solid story and plot, but it could have used a few tweaks to the plot to make it better. That I can agree on. For instance, the series could have started off with a few of the scenes from the past that were an integral part of the overall story--such as the fact that people were disappearing, that Ikuto went missing after an accident, and that Marcus' dad got left behind--before switching to Agumon fleeing DATS and meeting up with Marcus to later become his employee and digimon partner. That way we are giving watchers something deeper than what the characters in the story are actually aware of. Then the scenes noted at the beginning could have been expanded on later, connecting everything together more. It would have also given the story some type of a focus, maybe like this:

"Sometime in the past, a team of officers and citizens went in search of answers to why citizens were disappearing. That's when they discovered the digital world. When baby Keenan ended up there after a lab accident with a digital portal, this team went searching only to come up empty and to end up in danger. One man stayed behind to ensure their safe escape. That man was Spencer Daimon.

Now, years later, there is a secret government organization known as DATS that deals with the problem of digimon crossing over into the human world. But the questions still remain. Why is this happening?  And what will happen to both worlds if this question isn't answered? What ever happened to Keenan? And what happened to Spencer Daimon? This is Digimon Savers/Data Squad...


Something like that...something. This is just an idea of a plot change.  I had no problem with the whole story, but the plot could have been done differently to help the story more.


As for character development, even though Marcus was still pretty much Marcus in the end as far as personality was concerned, he had changed in other ways, if only minor. He started off fighting for himself, but as he got to know the others and the situation, he began fighting for what was right...to protect his friends, family, and the world he loved. Whether you like this or not, that IS character development. A character's personality doesn't have to change to show character development. You can show this change in a number of ways. With Marcus it was a change in motivation.

As for Keenan/Ikuto, his development occurred in the area of trust (as it had been stated), but his beliefs also changed as well. As a matter of fact, it was this change in beliefs--that all humans are not bad as he had first felt and that he is human--that allowed him to begin trusting the others in the first place, and Falcomon did help him to do this in a way. Merukimon is also responsible for influencing Keenan/Ikuto...as is Marcus.

Yoshino...It would have been nicer to see more of her background story and growth like the others; however, she did change. She became more of a fighter in the end compared to how she started out. So even though she is pretty much just there half of the time, she does undergo a change. Like Marcus, her personality doesn't really change. She basically overcomes an inferiority complex (that, to me, didn't really seem apparent until that episode, but that could be because of her lack of personality change).

Thomas under went his character development in a couple of ways. He started off smug and condescending towards Marcus while thinking highly of himself. As the story goes on, he still thinks highly of himself because he is a genius, but he has a bit more faith in Marcus. They ultimately become close friends by the series' end despite their differences. On the family side, Thomas has a terrible relationship with his father. They do not get along, but this directly changes by the time we reach the end of the story. He and his father are on better terms. He's still Thomas in the end, but he has grown in a couple of ways from what he was when the story first started out. His relationship with Gaomon also became a friendlier one.

The character types of the show may not be impressive, since they all embody some type of stock character element, but they do develop, and their digimon also help them to develop. The digimon themselves have personalities that aren't necessarily like that of their partners, but it is hard to say if they actually developed. Maybe only a little.

So...with this rant. I have given my opinion on the plot, story, and characters.

Oh, and Maki, a static character:

Quote
does not change throughout the work, and the reader's (or in our case the watcher's) knowledge of that character does not grow.

In that sense, none of the characters were flat out static other than maybe just the one time characters and our bridge bunny duo along with there PawnChessmon...but only if we don't get too technical.

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« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 07:05:13 PM by Lilitha Deviant » Logged

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« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2008, 03:38:26 PM »

Which plot is bad?

And I think it is better if the past gets uncovered later in the series, not directly.


Huh? Savers by far had the firmest plot of any Digimon series.

Exactly. One leads to another. Even the "Filler" Episodes at the beginning get a meaning later on.


As for character development, Ikuto and Masaru went through a lot. The others not so much, maybe.

Yoshino aswell. From a pathetic Izumi to stronger than Ruki.
Touma not so much. But that seems to be genetic.

But the Digimon were often much more three-dimensional characters than they had been in previous series.

Like they were inTamers.

You guys still need to convince me...I saw the first 3 episodes and I was like ARGHHH!
I saw Masaru PUNCH a Digimon!
WTF?

I mean...the Digidestined were always meant to support a Digimon during battle, and be the only key to Digivolution.  That is what kept the partnership balanced.  Letting a human PUNCH a Digimon to catalyze a Digivolution (What is it?  Stealing kilobytes or something?) is completely shallow in the sense of how some other shows are all about mindless violence and animated ninjas with "demons" in them.

DigiSoul is the power of Emotions.
Masaru has problems manifesting his somehow.  


ALSO, they tried to make Savers for an older audience, so they made the Digidestined really pretentious or angsty or moody teens in an attempt to "relate" to everyone.  They added a ninja kid for ratings.

Who is angsty? I mean besides Touma.
And Ikuto is not a Ninja, Falcmon is. Ikuto is the Wild Kid.


Ibut they switched around Digimon like Falcomon.  I can't take this BELIEVE-IT-I-WILL-BE-HOKAGE-OWL seriously.  The original Falcomon is soo much cooler.

I can somehow understand my personal rival, when she says that everytime someone makes a stupid Naruto comment in relation to Ninjas, she wants to punch that person. Being from Iga, she really hates that.
You are aware that Ninjas are a cultural thing in Japan. Toei and also Digimon had them before.

Agumon looks funny, and they stole his whole "Geo armbands" from Kumamon.

So waht? All their butts belong to Toei and Bandai.

Lalamon is really uncreative...just an almost sexist excuse to introduce a really feminine ( and weak looking )
Digimon and finally use Rosemon.

Weak? Meh, that pink little flower becomes quite badass.

Gaomon seems pretty bad *ss, though.

More like Gaomon gets his ass kicked a lot.

Digimon, for me, was about a bunch of kids who had problems like we all did.  These kids suddenly get involved in another world and end up saving everything with the help of their Digimon friends.  Anyways, the point is that the Digimon helped these kids through all their personal problems (Yamato and Takeru's divorced parents, Taichi's alcoholic father and Taichi's tendencies to show off bravery for attention, Sora and her mom, Mimi and her spoiled temperament and dependency on her parents and others...etc), though later on the Digidestined realized they did that all on their own.  What does Saver's do to show children that they are not alone and that they can do anything and that there are friends out there, somewhere?  Every season BUT Saver's has this original Digimon idea.  If it doesn't have this most basic thing, than I could say it's not Digimon anymore.

Have you actually seen it?
Norstein Family is a bad soap opera.
Ikuto overcomes his hate of humans, accepting that he is a human.
Yoshino her Inferiority complex etc...
They overcome it with their friends aswell.
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« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2008, 08:09:33 PM »

I know it seems pretty groundless that I haven't actually seen more than 3 episodes of Savers and yet I'm criticizing it.
Don't worry, I've learned my lesson.
I'll guess I'll give this show another go.
But the first time I saw it, I just couldn't comprehend how horrendous I thought it was.
I suppose I just had a different first impression.
And it's alright to dislike a certain Digimon series, right?  ...O_O...

And:
So that's what the punching was all about.  Emotions?  I guess that plays on the other Digimon trend in which strong emotions invoke digivolution.
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"The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live,
mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the
ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn,
like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars
and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes
'Awww!'"
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« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2008, 08:17:37 PM »

I hate 02 and Frontier... And I'm not crazy about Savers...

So, yeah... I think it's alright to not like one of the seasons of digimon.
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« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2008, 01:09:06 PM »

Yes, it is alright. Just don't rub it into people's faces all the time.

I know it seems pretty groundless that I haven't actually seen more than 3 episodes of Savers and yet I'm criticizing it.

First 10 Epsiodes appear a bit Filler-Like. You know, random DATS Work, but they lead into more. The Plot devlops in the shadows.

And it's alright to dislike a certain Digimon series, right?  ...O_O...

I think so. I don't like Frontier that much.

So that's what the punching was all about.  Emotions?  I guess that plays on the other Digimon trend in which strong emotions invoke digivolution.

Yes, emotions. DigiSoul is the power of emotions. And Masaru's seems to have a psychological problem somehow, as there are also cases where he can use it without punching.
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« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2009, 07:21:54 AM »

FACT: Adventure is better than all of that.
Truth. 

Masaru is still a awesome main though.
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« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2009, 10:00:35 PM »

I must say, I did like the idea of an organization trying to control the outbreak of Digimon in this world.
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« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2009, 02:26:04 PM »

Well, since they already brought this almost-one-year-of-inactivity post back, and no one has said anything, then I guess it's alright if I add something.

I must say, I did like the idea of an organization trying to control the outbreak of Digimon in this world.

Tamers had that, but the one in Tamers was MUCH more secretive than the on in Savers.

By the way, I think that the person that made this topic probably has already seen the whole season by now if he wanted to.
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